These are in chronological order, but highlight the most recent conversations when things began to turn sour.
Want the backstory? Check out the article ›
July 22nd, 2011 — His "solution" to pay us.
[email protected]: Ok, so I figured out what I'm gunna do! =D I'm gunna get into the underbelly of Runescape and sell some gp's for cash, I'm goin about it through another person so it's untraceable, but he owns a dicing clan and I'll be makin bank from that (500m daily, 500m = $250)
August 1st, 2011 — I'm guessing he was trying to get an idea of the hardware he'd need to host MyRuneLog... after running away and not paying us. Also trying to make me feel guilty, even without him paying.
[email protected]: What are the specs of the VPS that you are running the site off of? Ryan Hamilton: 1gb of ram and the cpu cycles are shared [email protected]: Ok cool, thnx man =] Ryan Hamilton: why do you ask? [email protected]: Talkin to some server dude about getting on another server so you wont have to deal with balencing myrunelog as well as the other websites as well [email protected]: Thinkin about switching to this once I pay you off a bit https://secure.sshvm.com/cart.php?a=confproduct&i=0 Ryan Hamilton: Alright great [email protected]: Because soon I will be telling people that I will be hosting private drop parties for only super members on the site... so yea =] That should bring in alot more money Ryan Hamilton: And just so you're on the same page, since the payments were $75 bimonthly and you're a month behind, the pending payment should be $150. [email protected]: Dang... [email protected]: Well like... you do realize that the projected time is over 180 hours right? [email protected]: Like... I never would of expected that =\ And it's killin me... But I'm tryin to build everything (money wise) the best I can so everything can get runnin right... And the site can be back on track with getting developed asap Ryan Hamilton: That was a rough estimate made back in December - way before development began. It's ~35 hours over at this point, which isn't bad considering all of the additional unforseen project additions. *You* kept adding things onto the project beyond the estimated scope, by saying things like "wouldn't it be cool if ...", essentially adding another thing to our already to-do list. Josh and I happily obliged, and the project moved on. You and I both know this so please don't try to con me down. I've been more than kind and understanding with you and am starting to get a bit agitated that it's taken over a month to recieve any sort of payment. I already have cut you incredible amounts of slack (relatively low monthly payments; allowing you to use the site as a marketing tool before it's done). Usually I charge a client 50% up front and they don't get to use the project until it's done. And honestly you're getting a good deal - I don't know of any agency that would do the quality work that Josh and I are doing for less. So please, don't tell me that the project is over-budget when you and I both know that this project turned out to be a bigger handful than was initally proposed. Ryan Hamilton: http://pastebin.com/MBS39C7f [email protected]: Ok =\ I just wanted to try and let you know where I was coming from, I'm tryin hard to get the money for you, talking to Dragon Dyce atm to try and get 500m for a dicing video... Like... I have to hit bottom to try and get this money is all =\ But yea, I'm tryin Ryan Hamilton: How's the loan coming? [email protected]: I've been workin on the business loan pretty much every time I have time to work on it Ryan Hamilton: That really would help a lot. And once the site has content I believe that you'll be able to pay it back. Ryan Hamilton: And make profits [email protected]: Yea I think so too, but my balls are in a viece haha [email protected]: Opps sorry wrong button Ryan Hamilton: You need to make relationships with advertisers to get serious money though [email protected]: How do I get in contact with them? Ryan Hamilton: they'll contact you typically, but that's further down the line so don't worry [email protected]: Aight [email protected]: Aight, just got out of call with the server dude, and he is going to talk to his partner about hosting the site (they are a company and everything with a lisense) and they plan to set us up with a 250 slot team speak as well as minecraft server which I will be renting out to someone so I can hopefully pay some cost with that money. Also with this drop party for super members if I play it out righ [email protected]: right* the drops will be monthly of 500m [email protected]: which will bring assloads of people in to buy super members from the site hopefuly, but all this is just thoughts atm.. and I just hope to God this shit works out right lol [email protected]: But I want to keep you as updated as posiable with all this stuff that is going down Ryan Hamilton: Me too man, I'm on your side Ryan Hamilton: Thank you very much [email protected]: Yea man, thank you. Like... I really want to pay you mostly for the fantastic job you have done on the site... But as well of course to get everything moving again. But like yea =] if this super member thing works out, along with the bank loan... Everything should be just fine =]
August 9th, 2011 — This is extra infuriating. Promising a payment and never paying. Typical for him.
[email protected]: Ok update on your payment is that this dude just sent me 300 bucks to my paypal, It will hopefuly show up when I wake up tomorrow, everything with the dicing cc (Other solid way of makin money is starting now, thnx to some friends and connections willing to help) So I will be sending 250 when that shows up, and with that 250 I would like for the forums to be updated, the tools section to laid out [email protected]: After the tool section gets laid out I would like for a calculater area to be fixed up, as well as having that area where names can be entered in and tallied would be nice to have as well for when we start doing that stuff =] [email protected]: So your payment is on the way man! =D YAY!!!!! Ryan Hamilton: Alright thanks for the update
August 17th, 2011 — I was working on the server and he messaged me. I took the oppurtunity to ask him about the several grand he owed us. Served us B.S. Par for the course really.
[email protected]: Dude the site has an internal error message, I have never seen this on there before Ryan Hamilton: Yes I'm doing server work Ryan Hamilton: How's that coming payment by the way? [email protected]: It's... Goin as quick as it can I guess... I mean... I'm tryin to get it, I saw that you had updated the invioce today again, but like... I don't see any of that 300 that I was sposed to get in paypal yet from this one dude... So idk whats up with that.. And he's on vaca atm of course... [email protected]: So I'm workin at difrent angles... Like... The dicing cc that was started by me and a couple friends is going well... We got one bad egg... But I think that'll be worked out soon, and that's how we're going to be making a lot of money Ryan Hamilton: Just a friendly warning, I will disable the site one week from today if payment has not been recieved. Regardless of who is hosting the site. I do not need FTP access in order to do so. [email protected]: I'm strung out by my balls man =\ Ryan Hamilton: Same. [email protected]: 1 week... [email protected]: Aight [email protected]: But I need your help with just a couple things so I can actually get it to you. Ryan Hamilton: Yes? [email protected]: Well I would mainly need a donation ranking list thing kinda like what Zybez has if there is a download for that and you won't have to make it... But if you gotta make it don't worry about it... Cause I know that working for an hours on that with only a chance of it working would be lame [email protected]: I'll send you link to what I'm talkin about [email protected]: opps not Zybez, I mean Sythe [email protected]: http://sythe.org/donations/ [email protected]: And have like... These http://sythe.org/donations/benefits.html [email protected]: I mean like... Only if there is something already set up for that kinda thing though... I wouldn't want you to work on it since you probably arlready got other things that you have already gotten paid for going on [email protected]: white:Big rolls for big winnings!! -- Roll 4 Money -- [email protected]: white:Trade ranks for bets in "Roll 4 Money" [email protected]: So sorry man [email protected]: How much do I owe btw? Ryan Hamilton: Sorry just need a few more minutes. In the middle of something [email protected]: No prob Ryan Hamilton: Sythe uses vbulletin with a donations plugin of some sort. I'm sure an equivilent exists for IP.B but I wouldn't be able to find it for you sorry Ryan Hamilton: and currently you owe what I sent you yesterday Ryan Hamilton: I will invoice you again once those are paid Ryan Hamilton: It actually looks like what sythe has is static and they just update the ranks manually actaully Ryan Hamilton: reundant Ryan Hamilton: redundant Ryan Hamilton: Anyway you can start a campaign on a site like pledgie.org and then you can pull the donors list with RSS Ryan Hamilton: it won't get the amounts though Ryan Hamilton: pledgie.com I mean [email protected]: Ok, well I'll definatly be workin hard to get that money... But if you do have to remove it or w\e Would you be able to do me a solid and post up an image with some links on it? Like... A donate link and an explaination of why the site is down and that the donations would help? Ryan Hamilton: Yes I can do that [email protected]: Thank you man [email protected]: But of course that is if I can't pay by that time, I'm tryin to work out some crazy shit atm. So... Hopefully I can get it to ya, but like... I just got my check from work yesterday... So that's out lol (cause all that money is gone to electric, phone, rent) But I'm tryin to work some shit out, also if worse comes to worse I'll be makin a video on my channel asking for donations Friday I hope, Here's a Little update on whats goin on. One dude buys and sells stuff on Creigslist, and he wants to give me $300 a week untill everything I owe is paid off. Then there is this other guy that is going to be sending 1.6k on the 27th. So... If I'm not able to pay you within the week, I should be able to send you at least 1.2k of [email protected]: the 1.6k when I get it on the 27th =D
August 22th, 2011 — this was after his site was disabled due to lack of payment. He said that he was getting a 1.6k "donation" from a random person on the Internet to pay us. Utter bullshit. The proposal I'm referring to is the changing of ownership I mentioned in my blog post.
[email protected]: Hey I was kinda hopin on the splash page that there would be a donate link or somethin so that donations to pay you could possably still come in, also on the 27th It's planned that I get 1.6k so I'll definatly be sending most of that over to you Ryan Hamilton: Josh and I have a proposal for you if you're interested [email protected]: I am Ryan Hamilton: I'm still drafting it but we should have a group conversation in a few minutes [email protected]: Ok I'm up for it [email protected]: Omg and freakin woot! Just found out that once I put my info back in at Chase placing agency I get my job back at Netflix!!!! [email protected]: Like not even 1 min ago I found that out! =D Ryan Hamilton: Congratulations! [email protected]: Thanks =D Ryan Hamilton: this proposial may be even more good news, depending on where your priorites are. just putting the final touches on it now and waiting for Josh to come back. [email protected]: My priorities are jumbled lol, But they pretty much go... Rent (550/2 (Room mate = 275), electric which just now got the deposit paid off (100), eating (50), saving up to pay yall which lately has been 0 because of me having this shity ass job. But I am very interested to hear the proposial Ryan Hamilton: Just sent it off to Josh for revision. will be a few more minutes [email protected]: Oh aight awesome. And hey man, Idk if you got my message about the dude sending 1.6k on the 27th, But I had made a video asking for donations and this one dude got into a car crash and everyone in the crash got like 2.5k pounds, and he's sending 900 pounds (1.6k USD) to me as a donation on the 27th =] So I'll be sending 1k of that directly to yall when I get it
August 25th, 2011 — he has the audacity to ask for the entire site's source for only $200 (it's valued at ~3k and he only paid a fraction of that). This was our final conversation.
Ryan Hamilton: hey sorry those messages went to my phone and I missed seeing them until getting home just now. [email protected]: No worries Ryan Hamilton: honestly I'd rather keep most of the conversations via text just so we both have records. [email protected]: That's understandable [email protected]: Ok since I've already paid for what's done on the site now I would like to have that first off Ryan Hamilton: definitely not part of the proposal Ryan Hamilton: not only were we doing everything under your guidance, but you only ended up paying a small percentage of your accumulated debt Ryan Hamilton: consider it a pain and suffering charge [email protected]: well... you said it was like a phone bill, and that's prorated Ryan Hamilton: we were working under a different deal. I haven't said this since grade school, but I believe that's "Indian giving" [email protected]: How much is my domain atm worth is what im wondering Ryan Hamilton: not much since it has no contect attached. you could try to get it appraised. Ryan Hamilton: try searching for target keywords like runescape or quest guides to get an idea Ryan Hamilton: the domain is pretty much interchangable and of little value at this point [email protected]: My elexer ranking is in the 3 millions Ryan Hamilton: we could honestly use any other name so if you'd rather not hand over the domain we could still work together Ryan Hamilton: alexa? [email protected]: Yea I really don't want to hand over the domain, but I would really like the info still ya know? cause I did pay for it [email protected]: and yes, alexa, my bad Ryan Hamilton: well we obviously couldn't let you still have control over it if Josh and I took over the site since that's a huge liability for us Ryan Hamilton: but if you don't wish to transfer ownership then the three of us would have to come to a new deal since most of what you had to offer was the MRL brand [email protected]: I wouldn't need control over it, But you said it was like a phone bill and since those are prorated (Paid for a month before) I feel as if I deserve to have what I paid for Ryan Hamilton: no that's not how billing works at all Ryan Hamilton: you PAID us for services and we PROVIDED them above and beyond [email protected]: Thats what you classified it as on the splash page Ryan Hamilton: but you then DID NOT PAY US and we are here now Ryan Hamilton: haha no you're misunderstanding [email protected]: I have paid yall [email protected]: I want the final product of the service [email protected]: That is all... [email protected]: I am willing to pay up to 200 dollars for the final product Ryan Hamilton: if you paid your phone company for services and they provided them, but all of a sudden stopped paying them, you don't get to ask for a refund of the months you did pay Ryan Hamilton: that's essentially what you're asking [email protected]: but if i was paying for a house to be built and the house got half way built you can't take away the house.. Ryan Hamilton: but that comparison is still a stretch since this isn't a subscription, although we have been forced to treat it as one in light of your situation [email protected]: it is your right as a company to stop working. Such that as the construction workers [email protected]: But the construction worker can't tear down what he has built after that or it would be in due time for a refund to the purchaser/client Ryan Hamilton: oh yes you could. it happens often. a rich tycoon comes to the us, moves to vegas, and starts building a mansion. he ends up getting in trouble with the IRS and looses his money. the building company isn't getting paid now but they're not at fault, so what they do now is consolidate his assets (the unfinished mansion) by completing it and selling it [email protected]: Do you understand? [email protected]: They sell the assests, they don't tear them down Ryan Hamilton: how are we tearing them down? Ryan Hamilton: we're doing exactly the opposite [email protected]: what your doing in essence is tearing down work that has already been paid for by me i paid for the site to get where it is now i want only what i paid for nothing more nothing less Ryan Hamilton: we're offering to finish the site Ryan Hamilton: absolutely not Ryan Hamilton: you're just trying to squeeze more out of us frankly Ryan Hamilton: I commend you for that but it won't work. you're essentially been leading us on for months while we continued to work in good faith [email protected]: I'm not tryin to squeeze, I'm tryin to get what I have already paid for Ryan Hamilton: you want the source code for the times you actually did pay? I'd be more than happy to scrounge into my repository and send those files to you. [email protected]: unlike the tycon i actually paid for the work that was done [email protected]: I already have pictures of what I paid out to you Ryan Hamilton: yes I have the invoices on file of course [email protected]: yes i want the source code of the files the day before the site shutdown considering i paid for the work up to then and you stopped working when i stopped paying Ryan Hamilton: haha absolutely not Ryan Hamilton: you didn't pay up to that point at all Ryan Hamilton: we just let the site sit live in good faith [email protected]: if you would send the code i'd be glad to compensate you up to 200 dollars as soon as possible Ryan Hamilton: that's not really a lot Ryan Hamilton: and the source code is worth many more times than that Ryan Hamilton: much of it is Josh's IP [email protected]: Exactly that's why I want the source code which I have paid for already [email protected]: I want what I paid up to already [email protected]: at that point you can delete me from your server and everything :/ Ryan Hamilton: yeah, no amount of explaining or analogies is going to help you understand I suppose. that's just not how development works. [email protected]: All I want is what I paid for man.. Ryan Hamilton: either you aren't looking at this from our perspective or you full well understand the breadth of what you're requesting and are just making desperate pushes to get what you need to start another site with the code you did not reimburse us for. Ryan Hamilton: not going to happen. Ryan Hamilton: I can send you the assets and out of date files from the last point you were in the black Ryan Hamilton: but that's it [email protected]: as rightfully so i paid for it to be built in whole you the builder accepted the payment now your going against it. its exactly like building a house and going against it. so i expect atleast the source code up to what i paid for. Ryan Hamilton: at any time you were at negative balance with your invoices you are indebted to us and do not own any source files at that point Ryan Hamilton: that's not a strong argument at all, you know. Ryan Hamilton: legally you have right to demand source material from a person in which you did not pay [email protected]: I would like the files that you're offering so I can have a look at least on what your planning to give out Ryan Hamilton: no Ryan Hamilton: you accept them as they come and stop asking [email protected]: What? lol [email protected]: Ok Ryan Hamilton: once I send them to you there's no getting back is what I'm trying to say Ryan Hamilton: and no giving them back Ryan Hamilton: it's going a while to get everything Ryan Hamilton: I will need to talk to Josh of course as well [email protected]: k also part of this agreement is that i get rights to edit the source and use it as i may the other thing is that you will delete everything off your web server and this whole problem will be done ok? Ryan Hamilton: since he has the lionshare of the code Ryan Hamilton: not making any agreements until we get Josh in here [email protected]: Ok Ryan Hamilton: this isn't a promise though. I'm just telling you that I'll see what I can do. we may not even have the files anymore and each will have to pulled individually from dropbox/svn [email protected]: Ok [email protected]: Hey dude, so when you think you'll be able to get in touch with Josh? [email protected]: Cause I found a old backup of website and when you find the newer one could i just have that? Ryan Hamilton: I've been trying to contact him telepathically but it hasn't worked so far. Guess I'll have to wait until he comes online Ryan Hamilton: and you aren't really in a position to make demands. just wait. [email protected]: Oh ok =] Well thank you for trying one way and waiting for the other then [email protected]: I'm just asking because I found this backup... [email protected]: It's from back a while ago from when I was on godaddy though [email protected]: Before Robert was in the picture
August 26th, 2011 — this one is between Harley and Josh, who confronted him about the source code. Note that Harley carefully says he hasn't set up our files... yet. Not that he doesn't have them - he already admitted to that. It's cute how he felt the need to explain how a "static website" works to a web developer.
[10:08:42 PM] KOdesigns: Hello Harley, Ryan has informed me that you've gone and grabbed yourself my old files. Those files that you have, you haven't paid enough money to use them. Therefore if I find you using my files when you have no paid for them there will be more people involved in this than there needs to be. Enjoy your weekend Harley. [10:00:22 PM] Harley - MyRuneLog.com (Ability44): I don't have your files -.- No database files are used. [10:00:37 PM] Harley - MyRuneLog.com (Ability44): Like... The whole database area of the site is not up. [10:03:49 PM] Harley - MyRuneLog.com (Ability44): But I did pay for some of the developement of the admin area of the site so I would like to have partial of course on what I had payed up to. [10:06:02 PM] Harley - MyRuneLog.com (Ability44): And you are correct i am using what i have paid for currently.... (Other then the admin area side of the site) I do not have the databases etc...so these are not up to date files these are files in which i have paid over 2,000(usd) for and in the case that i can't use files that i paid for you are scamming the buyer. [10:08:42 PM] KOdesigns: You have paid me for 28 hours of work. That isn't even enough for the core files. I am not scamming the buyer when you've not bought anything. I also worked on the frontend so if your claim that you do not have the admin area is true, you still have my files. [10:11:23 PM] Harley - MyRuneLog.com (Ability44): the current website is that of a static html site meaning that it has no connection to your "database" so in that case i do not owe for the database and if you weren't getting paid you shouldn't of worked that is also your responsiblity as the seller to insure that the client A. Gets what they pay for and B. that the client pays [10:11:38 PM] Harley - MyRuneLog.com (Ability44): The client in this case being me. [10:12:31 PM] Harley - MyRuneLog.com (Ability44): and you and ryan were working as a team meaning when i was paying for almost over 200 hours it was towards both of you and this is the understanding in which we had and breaking this agreement is against the sellers and buyers agreement [10:17:33 PM] Harley - MyRuneLog.com (Ability44): not to event point out the fact that i was paying for a custom designed website and your files where what i was paying for to be designed and if you had these files prior to then you were breaking the agreement even further since the agreement was that you design the site from the ground up not use a design already made and modify it. and what you had made so far that i had access to was what i paid for so im just using my intellectual property nothing more nothing less [10:19:01 PM] KOdesigns: You told as many times to continue work and money was coming soon. We in good faith trusted your word and continued work as you asked. I do not believe that you don't have my files, but, I will send you over 28 hours of work. I will check with FreshBooks what files these are and send them to you later. [10:19:58 PM] Harley - MyRuneLog.com (Ability44): Ok good. I just wanted to make sure we were on the same page. [10:20:05 PM] Harley - MyRuneLog.com (Ability44): Thank you [10:20:52 PM] KOdesigns: You was fully aware of the pre-made admin panel design, Ryan said he would send me his admin panel design but at this time we were not in contact with each other therefore it was taking to long so I used another design. You hired me to develop not to design. And as I just said, I know you was aware of this because I told you. [10:21:40 PM] KOdesigns: If you wanted me to design an admin panel, I would of. But seeing as you've only ever been able to pay me for 28 hours of work, I doubt a design added on top of this would of helped your status.